Realistically idealistic daydreamer, seasoned procrastinator, atheist and monarchist with a secret agenda and a slight inclination towards voodoo practices.
And just when I thought that it couldn't possibly get any more ***** (insert a word or two of your choice) than it already is - Jack butts in and ruins it all for me withthis! Now I don't even know whether to cry, laugh or praise the Lord (and my husband's company) that I am not living in the UAE!
*Mental note to self: add UAE to the following (rather rough, but in alphabetical order) list of countries I wouldn't want to find myself living in:
Afghanistan Bahrain Iran Iraq Pakistan Saudi Somalia Sudan
etc.
And now, of course, it makes sense to me why Nzingha, for instance, is against her kids dating in the future. I mean, I would be, too, if this is what they are going to face should they be found dating:
Dr Khalifa Rashid Al Sha'ali, Dean of the Faculty of Law at Ajman University, said if a man and a woman who are not related are caught alone in a private place, they face a jail sentence or lashes even if they were not involved in any suspicious act. It is up to the judge's discretion to decide whether they should be deported.
Sultan Khalifa Bin Bakheet Al Matroushi, Chairman of the Ajman Federal Appeal Court, said if a man and woman are sitting alone in the work place or in front of people, they will not be charged. If they are found in a bedroom or in a house or car and the circumstances are suspicious, they will face charges even if they have not committed adultery. The couple can also be deported, he said.
Mohammad Bin Nakhira Al Daheri, Minister of Justice, said that according to Sharia, if a man and woman are found in a closed place alone they may get arrested, but he gave an assurance that they are held for good reason. He stressed that the police would investigate first.
"If a couple is found alone in a closed place such as a house, room or car they may face legal action. There also must be a complaint against them. However, if their actions are not against public morals such as being in their work place or inside a lift, of course no action would be taken. If police receive a tip that a man and woman are in a closed place, they will investigate and if they are not doing anything against the law they will not be punished."
"There must be a complaint and investigation from police. The public prosecution and the judge can decide if something illegal was going on," Al Daheri said.
There are hundreds of cases such as these that emerge each year either from the police or the courts. An increasing number of men and women, who are not blood relatives nor legally married, and have shared a flat, room or even sat in tinted cars, are being jailed and deported. These men and women have shared no relationship.
OK so of course each country is entitled to enforcing its laws on its citizen and residents. And of course I recognise the leniency of the law (being a lawyer myself) when I see one - I mean, shouldn't people be grateful that they are not going to be deported if found using an elevator together?? However, they WILL be deported if found in the car together (provided the car has tinted windows, didn't I just say the law is lenient?) So I would assume the conversation such as this could easily take place:
-Jack, could you please give me a lift home from work? -Yes, QC, of course! -Oh but Jack, pray tell, does your car have tinted windows? -Yes, QC, actually I just had them tinted so that females who are not related to me won't commit a sin by staring at my beautiful self. -Oh no, Jack, if this is the case then I couldn't POSSIBLY ride in your car with you! -Tough luck, QC, guess you'll have to cash out on a cab then, hehe.
What fun!
PS. Somebody please explain to me how it is possible to "sit alone in front of people".
Wow. This is a law in the UAE ? I had no idea growing up there that things were that bad. Holy Crap. That being said, are you sure that things are really that much better in Quatar ? Having never lived there, I was wondering if the laws are really that much more lenient there, since I thought the UAE was one of the most progressive countries.
Well, let's start in this way, in UAE (as my beloved country Saudi Arabia :) and many others) the law is Islam, and as you are a lawyer yourself, I suppose that you know every place and every country has their own laws which they put for themselves and who wants to be in a place like this then just can either respect this laws or don't be there.
In Islam is not a place for a relation where the couple is not engaged, which is supposed to be a protection for couple themselves and for the moral of the society, unless if you want people every where acting in your way, do you !?.
You know Qatar Cat, we should always keep in mind, that not everything we do, should be done by everyone else and what we do this is the correct thing to be done. The society in these places you mentioned where you don't see yourself living in one of them, are putting the laws to protect and it's protective. I want to know, why a couple would be hiding & isolating themselves in a place while there is no official band connecting them !?, if they are serious (or one of them at least) then why they keep it hidden !!?, so we have to classify these "relationships" where either to be for fun or serious, directly exclude the serious ones, let's say it would be like when you don't bring every boyfriend you had in your to meet your family as you don't see something serious, but just passing time or like what the guys say : "have fun with the wrong girl, till you have the right girl", and Islam protect a girl to be the "wrong girl" for some guy and from this point, Islam made this inhibition as a relation should be always taken in a serious way and never been for fun (imagine one night stand !!!?), it's to prevent making wrong options and be the wrong person been used till the right one shows up. A relation in our law (i.e. in Islam) is something holy and never can be something for fun, so who doesn't give it the value of importance and want to take it for fun and manipulate the other part and make a victim of a definitive not innocent relation, then this law was established to stop anything like this.
This reminded me a story which you know it very well, do you remember that Jordanian girl who lost her virginity for a western guy !? I want to ask you, is this kind of relation what you want it to be accepted !? Do you think it was done in a correct way !? Where they hiding themselves when they were meeting or were they showed in public!?, don't you think if they were caught before than all this very huge problems will be avoided !? and please don't show up with, so what if they have sex, then we should consider changing all religions including (Christianity and Jewish) about allowing adultery :), and of course that western guy was so serious in this relation that he took the first flight going back to his country, ummmmm maybe he is so handsome like this Jack and this poor Arabian girl couldn't hold herself from throwing herself in the "sin" of this handsome western guy !!? I think they should prevent any handsome beautiful western guy from coming to these deserts countries as they are just a walking sins and the poor women are defend less in front of them :))
Something I found strange is, why the negative posts in your blog are more !? It makes me wonder if you like living in the area or been forced to live in there !?
Just one last comment, it might be new for you, here in Saudi Arabia, when they catch a case like where a guy with a girl, always the girl been released after calling her father, while the guy who is going to take all the blame on his head (including locked up), I found it not fair as the girl should get the same punishment but they always be the pure manipulated victims. Telling this information as two of my brothers are judges and one is in the prosecution.
-Jack, could you please give me a lift home from work? -Yes, QC, of course! -Oh but Jack, pray tell, does your car have tinted windows? -Yes, QC, actually I just had them tinted so that females who are not related to me won’t commit a sin by staring at my beautiful self. -Oh no, Jack, if this is the case then I couldn’t POSSIBLY ride in your car with you!
-Well no not inside with me Catty ... that would a sin and against the law. But I can strap you on the luggage rack. Don’t let your dress blow up!
Now see this is the type of bull$h!t I'm talking about. We gulf people especially saudis and kuwaites think we are the shit, we think just because we were born Muslim we have the right to dictate things to people though at the same time when it comes to us, God all the sudden becomes all forgiving and merciful. Give me a break dude!! What kind of Islamic law are you talking about buddy?? Isn't that what Saudi's do, I mean I'm saudi myself and that's what I used to do in high school. Tinted windows, take girlfriend to the beach and make out but I guess that's fine right, because we Muslims and we own the place it's okay for us to do it but foreigner?!?! Oh no no no...How could they do this in my own "muslim" country. AT the end of the day, it is more likely that the foreign couple are the ones who will end up getting married as oppossed to the saudi who will take the girl's virginity or even sodomising the girl and then forget about her and leave her for the street dogs, and then what is our excuse, "well if she gave me her virgnity that easy she might cheat on me in the future" Duuuuuuuhhh well after you fooled her into it she would be lucky if she ever gets married, you prolly ruined her life. U know something I have many girl-friends in the states who dated some of my saudi friends or other saudis I never knew, and the most common hilarious relationship problem I kept hearing over and over again, was that their saudi boyfriend never had normal sexual intercourse with them in the proper traditional missionary way. They always sodomised those girls because they said it's against Islam to have sex before getting married, so they sodomise them, how freakin sadistic?!?!? I beleive the problem is much deeper than that. I beleive this is the defensive reaction of those who are scared of the kitty Cat ;) That's it...I had it with you people and I'm going back to America :P
One more thing I would like to add in response to what Ahmed said....Duude you wanna convince me these laws are to protect people?!? When more than half have had surgeries done and so many divorced women and my personal favorite, those who have the elastic skin...yeah...How am I supposed to get to know the girl and see how compatible we are and whether or not I could live her the rest of my life?? How am I supposed to build a pure and healthy relationship when I have to sneak around just to be able to spend some time with a person to get to know them?? Just having to sneak around makes me feel like I'm already doing something wrong....It immediatly removes the pureness out of it. And my only option is to have my mother choose some girl for me....And then ten years down the road, one of us would realize that if they had the choice in the beginning they wouldn't have gotten married to that person, and that's when you are stuck in a situation you don't wanna be in and your life starts turning into hell, oh I guess you can always go to Morocco or Lebanon to get some action, or better yet you can always get another wife right, Islam gave us another privilage to abuse. Is that what Islam is all about??? If this is what Islam is about then I'd rather be Christian. Woops I suppose now I should be killed for reverting from Islam eh? Such hypocracy will see the day when it smashes right into the wall of embarrasment.
Mattie and Ahmed - actually, the article only talks about Ajman, so chances are it's not the same in Dubai. I wouldn't be as optimistic as to tell you that things are very different in Dubai, but I had to get it straight. This was NOT about Dubai (and thanks to the one who pointed it out to me today!)
Bader,
Sweetie, why do you always feel the need to justify things to me? I am not talking about Arab people and how they live their lives. They can do as they please. I am talking about myself and people like me and how we live in the region. Chill out, buddy! And check out the response that Bandarof wrote to you (I think it was meant for you and not Ahmed, actually). As for negative posts - well, there are plenty of positive things happening too, and I would always be the one to write about them and I do. But when I come across something truly hilarious, I can't keep from writing! You, on the other hand, only comment on my controversial posts and never on my nice ones. Why? :^) And by the way, did you forget how we used to hang out? We once spent a whole day together. I don't think it was that bad! And certain other things in your life would have been MUCH easier for you if the laws in your country weren't the way they are, my friend. But hey, here I was not talking about Saudi! :p
Jack,
I KNEW you would find a way! That's the spirit! :^)
Bandarof,
Hehe glad I am not the only one who thinks this way! And thanks for speaking out. See, I have two great male Saudi pals, Bader and you, and how different your opinions are! How fascinating. Although as I said earlier, I think you want to address your answers to Bader and not Ahmed.
Hey you called "Bandarof". You know, I cut my arm from the shoulder if you have anything to do with Saudis or even if you have a very small tiny particular Saudi genes, so cut the shit out, ok ?
And please if you think yourself a "shit" when you said "We gulf people especially saudis and kuwaites think we are the shit", I understand very well what shit you are, but no need to generalize next time and instead of use "we", use"I", ok ?
There is a big different between dictating things to people and doing things wrong, who is perfect Mr.Bandarof !? (Btw, is this Kazakhstanian name ?), we say the correct thing and the things should be done even though people don't do it, for example, as you are a Muslim as you said, Do you pray 5 times a day !? and does a Muslim obliged to pray 5 times a day !? please connect your answers for both questions ;) , so nothing justify wrong attitude even if people doing it, for example, you were taking a girl and making out with her in the old days, would you accept this for your sister !? (Waiting to here your answer about this point Mr.Saudi), I'm talking here about the correct way which should be followed, understood !?
Funny you are ! really you are, but in a stupid way :), when you mentioned about a guy may take the girl's virginity and leave her for the street's dogs, you just proved my point of view and that's why Islam forbidden a guy and girl being a lone in a isolated place to don't let something like this happen, because who is serious will take things in serious way, but not taking a girl in tinted windows and make out with her in the beach (was it just making out ?), so street's dogs (as yourself) who just take the girls for fun, should be punished and locked like dogs ;)
So your American girl-friends were telling you that they had Saudis boyfriends who was making just anal "sex" with them because these guys can't make sex before marriage !?, Didn't I tell you that you are really funny but in stupid way !, so these poor girls were accepting this as they refer to these guys by "boyfriend", even they "just" make anal sex !? I'll tell you something (which is wrong of course) there was some Saudi guys in the State who take a virginity of some girls for a can of beer ! Yep for a can of beer, here we are talking about reasonable talk not your shitty talk of having anal sex all the time bla bla bla !
You said " I believe this is the defensive reaction of those who are scared of the kitty Cat ;) That's it", just for you information, I know QC in person, maybe before you stop sucking your mother's tits.
Finally, what a loss we are having in the country as we are loosing Mr.Bandarof who will leaves us and go to the State, what a loss ! what a loss ! what a loss !....I told you that you really funny :) , buuuuut in stupid way !
Cat, just so you know.. exactly the same laws apply in Qatar. Trust me, I know ;)
As for being "alone in front of people".. I'm assuming what the guy is referring to is couples making out.. holding hands, looking at each other lovingly.. it all depends on who catches you and what kind of a mood they are in when they do.
Funnily enough, my understanding of the situation in Doha is that "they" are much more lenient with Westerners than they are wih Arabs/Indians/Brown people in general (or anyone who could possibly, potentially, be Muslim).
That doesn't mean Westerners are completly immune- like I said, it all depends on who "catches" you and what kind of a mood he (and I say he, because it usually is) is in.
Hey Q C :) Well, I think whenever I open your blog, just the negative energy of these posts pulls me in :-( and you know me, can't hold it ! I'm not justifying anything for you hayati, as for me what you wrote is like embossing and forcing a negative image which for me is not correct and my obligation is to show the real reason and the real way of things. About foreigners and how they live, I don't know about there, but normally no one come close to the foreigners, but since you mentioned these lines about what could be happened for a couple caught a lone in UAE, even I don’t know what this has to do with you while you live in Qatar !? I had to write my own opinion. About that person, I already replied to him even before I see yours. Yesssssssssss ! My life could be much easier if one law was different as you know, but from the other hand, this law is strictly from the government and has nothing to do at all with the religion. Yep there was a lot of fun hanging out together :)..Hey what's new with Kevin Costner ? :)), btw my mother in law is a big fan for Kevin Costner :)) Kisses Bader Riyadh
LOL yeah I know it's the same here. There is a massive crackdown movement going on, against "demoralising" in the country. We get to read in the papers that this or that couple was caught together and is being deported.
Bader,
No matter how strongly you feel about the subject, please make your point without calling other people here "stupid" if their opinion differs from yours. Am I stupid, too? No need mentioning mothers' tits either. And "shit" in Bazza's comment was a figure of speech, American English slang for "great", "superior" .. You will have to cut your arm too, I am afraid, as Bandarof is indeed Saudi... And his name? Well, you don't really think I am a cat, do you? :p And what does all this have to do with praying 5 times a day and so on? I don't pray at all, does that mean I have no right of expressing my opinion? Can you please, please just stop acting as if my sole purpose here is to attack Saudi! It is NOT! Do you want to tell me that things are perfect in the region? They are not, just as they are not anywhere else in the world. And yes, I have a right to discuss it because I live here and I have an opinion. I am not being disrespectful. I always respect other people's views, traditions, beliefs and opinions. Just as long as they don't force me to follow them. Lets communicate and discuss rather than throw insults. No matter now strongly I felt about the subject of the post in question, I made sure my language was not foul. I would much rather everyone else here did the same, if only out of respect for me and fellow bloggers and commentators. Thanks! Now to the subject - what I wrote is true, and you even explained why these steps are being taken by the authorities, so why then you say that what I wrote is projecting a negative image?? Isn't it great that people are prosecuted for socialising? And if it is, as you say it is, how come my post is negative? It talks about a positive issue, people being deported for immoral behaviour. You said it's positive, right? Why blame me? :^)
As for Kevin Costner.. sadly for him, I have a new beau - James Purefoy. Well I guess it's not my fault - Kevin should have returned my phone calls! :^)
In the papers?! That would have never happened a few years ago. Doha is changing.. in so many ways. It's all a reaction to what is considered to be a corruption of culture and tradition I guess.
Last time I was in Doha.. I had a few issues with the cops.
I would just hate to be a teenager in the Gulf, must be the hardest thing. I guess it doesn't matter to them, cos they don't date and marry some stranger their parents have choosen for them...
Alright man...I guess my English might be a little too complicated for you to fully understand. I'm not even gonna go over all the points you commented about in your comment about what I said cuz with your attitude I don't beleive you will ever understand what I am trying to say. though a few things I would like to say, first about being Saudi....Sorry to break your bubble but I am more saudi than you can ever be, u know why?? Because everything I say about Saudi Arabia is out of my love for my country and because it hurts to see my country and my people being so ignorant, giving my culture and religion a bad image, yalla yabushabab go cut your arm from the shoulder. It's time we get our act together and stop being foolish. For example, I didn't disrespect you at all in my post, I never insulted you personally or your mother, or your sister, I was just stating facts. And look at your response to me, you called me stupid and insulted my sister and my mother. This is what I mean by being ignorant and foolish, why are you getting all rowled up, we are only discussing some issues on a blog like civilized people. Why can't you be civilized and discuss your points without insulting others. Besides...What's wrong with kazakhistan?? Aren't they humans there, also Muslim?? I know your mentality, just being a Saudi man and a Muslim doesn't mean that everything you say is right, you need to learn to listen to other people's opinions and respect them because you are only disrespecting yourself and disrespecting Islam by using Islam to make yourself feel better than others this is "Takabbur 3ala Allah" since he created us equal, you have no right to judge other people, That is Allah's right only. But then again, I don't blame you since you lived in Saudi all your life, there is no way for you to learn something different. It's such a shame that your name is so similar to mine, I think I might change it :P
LOL please keep your name. Or I'll have you sent to Kazakhstan! Funny enough, you guys are not that different, not only your names are similar but since I got to know you both rather well it's surprising how much alike you are in they way you think and act. Why is it so different online?? Bader is a great, open minded and if I may add rather non conformist guy, and Bazza you are more of a traditionalist than I am (if that is possible!). So what the hell happened??? Enough already.
UE,
Some say they wouldn't want to be teens in the Gulf, I say I wouldn't want to be a teen again, period. As for this post of mine - well, they either change or they don't. Sooner or later human rights organisations will catch up with this, too. What some of my readers failed to understand is that my point wasn't to mock the law in the area. I was shocked at the punishment the people get! Lashes and deportation even if there was nothing suspicious going on?? Laws are laws, and as such they should be respected by the people moving to any country. You don't like the law - you don't live there, and that's that. But in this case I think the law is wrong with being overly strict, to the point where it reaches insanity.
Bazza??? Who is Bazza?? Is that my new nickname?? I actually realize that our thoughts are quite similar just from different prospectives. Were you sayin I am a traditionalist?? is that how you see it, I think it might be the other way around, no?
LOL yeah that's you. And yes I see you as quite a traditionalist, in a nice sense. You have all the traditional qualities in you. And yes, it's the perspective that makes the difference.
Good morning QC, Well, I don't need you to tell me what I should write and what I should not, as you write about things I completely don't like and find it very much W R O N G ! beside, sweetie, respect for who deserve it and yes my dear I'm going to keep my arm for sure!....(You are not a real cat !!? I always thought that you are :P)
That post wasn't for you, therefore the question of praying 5 times a days, clearly wasn't for you and when I asked this, because that smart ass, was saying that Saudis say things but they do the opposite and I said, everybody knows what's right but even though do "shit", as no body perfect and to prove this point, I asked this question for this "buddy" as he knows what should be done and I doubt very much he does.
Did you say no body can socializing !? yes you are right :( , just you European people can do this here and we are the poor ones who just keep watching you knowing that we don't have any chance to do what you do and have the fun you have…poor us :( Why don't you tell us how we can socialize because I want to be like you people :)
At the end, this is my style to write and as you keep writing on your shitty way (this "shit" is a figure of speech means "great", ok ? ), so there is one of two things, either you stop writing in this negative way and I'll disappear, or block my comments because I won't stop as you know me and I will write in the way that I want, not the way your majesty wants, ok ?.
Mr.Bandro (Mr.Saudi) First, thanks for saving me from your explanations because for sure they are very "shit" ("shit" here is a figure of speech means "great":P) Second, you said " I am more Saudi than you can ever be, u know why?? Because everything I say about Saudi Arabia is out of my love for my country and because it hurts to see my country and my people being so ignorant, giving my culture and religion a bad image" Ah I really can see how much Saudi you are and even more than ever I can be, just God's mercy on King Faisal (you know why I specify him, don't you). and hey, I may imagine your love to your country Mr.Saudi that you talk shit (shit here is shit) everywhere in front of everybody in a wrong way, and what kind of culture that you are talking about !? BTW, What's your religion ? Third, if you were respectful since the first post and speak in a respectful way, then you'll be treated in civilized way, but as you are the farthest from something called "civilization", then just this way of talk what could be used with you Mr.Saudi, and I have nothing against kazakhistan as I didn't say anything against them, they have a real men who doesn't be shamed to say that they are from there :) and enough that they have Shekh Al Bukhari (He has a book of certain statements of profit Mohammad), and I was just asking you if you are from there "buddy", that's all ;) Fourth, you said " you need to learn to listen to other people's opinions and respect", yes I do listen to other "people" and respect them, but as you said to The "people", but the question is, Are you included in this "people" ? Fifth, you said " But then again, I don't blame you since you lived in Saudi all your life, there is no way for you to learn something different", just a cowered who run away instead of facing the situations and hid himself in the web sites throwing his hate on the place which made him something! But go back to your State and your culture of "buddy" & "dude" :P Finally, chill out "buddy" and enjoy your name because it's very close to mine, maybe u should make it exactly like mine, to be more Saudi and remember me always :)
PS: I'm done from you in this post, till QC honor us with another negative post, I'll be in standby mode !
I think there are a few issues here, and honestly I ignored most of the comments because the just went into "scream" mode and I'm not interested.
1. I don't want my children dating because I believe it to be sinful. I'm Mulsim and I'm raising my children as such. Being deported isn't a major concern of mine.
2. There is the issue of shariah laws with deal with such Islamically defined sinful acts being imposed on non Mulsims in society. This I believe to be contrary to shraiah to begin with. consider Malaysia more close to shariah law when it comes to Non muslim issues. These sexually moral issues wouldn't be souly defined by shariah, because shariah itself provides such things to also be governed by non Muslim law. Sexual offenses that involve non Muslims ony are handled in non muslim courts. If it involves a Muslim it goes to shariah court. So 'dating' for non Muslims wouldn't be an issue in places like Malaysia. because it is a religiou sexual moral thing which relates only to Muslims, not non Muslims.
3. The responsiblity of companies who hire non muslims to inform them of such laws. Here in saudi everyone knows. you get leaflets, co-workers fill you in, you are given lectures upon arrival. So it isn't as if people are totally clueless here. We knew one guy who actually brought in alcohol and didn't know it was illegal. He freaked out when he found out. He read about the religious materials and that before he came, but for some reason the no alcohol is something he overlooked. We all get packets of laws in Saudi, what to pack what to not pack ect before arrival and we have to sign that we read it and send it back to the company. This is standard because a company is a SPONSER of the individual, if the individual gets in trouble so doe the sponser although to a lessor degree. The guy was dumping alcohol down the toilet for days. We told him if you drink it do it only at your place do not go out at all. He didn't trust himself so he dumped it, the whole thing was funny.
4. In saudi non related people drive together all the time. This is how women get around afterall. But the guys sit up fron and the women in the back. But there are times I will stick my mother in law or mother in the front w/ the driver. There is so many of us in a car to suggest something is going on is a bit too much.
5. The laws of the country are to be followed and ignorance inst an excuse. This is what we are taught in the US in basic legal courses. We may disagree w/ the countries laws, but we can't dictate change (or can we I dunno the way of the world is changing that thought) and we can't claim ignorance as a way to escape punishment. When I travel to a country I want to know the customs and laws that may directly affect me, I must be odd that way.
Thanks... You are right about the conversation taking a wrong turn here. So I am glad you stepped in and wrote stuff that is great to read and think about.
Yes of course I know you won't let your kids date for other reasons than what I wrote, this is not the way I wanted it to sound. What I meant is that I would be against my kids dating there just as you are - albeit for different reasons.
Now to the law. Yes we are bound to respect the law of the country we live in, and I always say that to people who are unhappy with it. If you can't stick to the laws - LEAVE. At the same time, I consider MY house to be MY PERSONAL space. So what I do there with other consenting adults is MY business. Don't tell me that I can't bring a guest in. Where does that stick? Whose morals do I offend by having a man in my place? Besides, the article clearly stated that some of the people who were deported "have shared no relationship", i.e. they weren't dating/flirting or having sex. They weren't caught in compromising act by someone. And the punishment? Lashes and deportation. Middle Ages.
And to be honest, this whole issue reminds me of that old joke about an old lady complaining that she continuously sees naked men in the building opposite. When the authorities came to check, they realised she can't even see the building from her windows, leave alone naked men inside, to which she replied "no, but if you stand on the edge of the bathtub and stick your neck out as far as possible out of the small bathroom window, then you can see them". So what if I am out with the guy? Whose morals do I offend if nobody knows whether we are related? What if he is my husband/brother? Nooo the people "have a right to know". They actually have the right to demand proof of relationship. And if we are related - oh, then it's all peachy, and we can continue doing what we are doing. If not - then we are offending the morals. So doesn't it sound weird to you?? Same act, and if you just left us alone everyone could be happy. The issue, therefore, is not offending the public, and not even preventing "bad" things from happening to "good" local girls, because we are not talking about locals, we are talking about non Muslim non local folk. The issue here is doing everything possible to prevent these non Muslim non local people from being happy.
Thanks for telling about Malaysia. I am sure there are other Muslim countries were dating (sharing a flat, being in the car) for non Muslims (and Muslims) is not an issue - like Turkey, Lebanon, some others. Lets just hope more countries with draconian laws will reconsider them.
There are just so many odd things when you really sit down and evaluate this. Here are some things that are clear within Shariah.
1. If you catch someone looking peeping in your windows you can legally poke them in the eye.
The idea is that you are not to seek the wrong doing, or assume wrong doing and avoid displaying the wrong doing if at all possible.
2. This is further displayed in the requirements of zina. Illegal sexual INTERCOURSE, not petting, fondeling, kissing either. Can only be established by majority opinion by four male (I won't even get into the misogynistic views in regards to males only as witness uggh) witnesses all swearing to have seen the ACTUAL penetration. If this is not met than they can't be punished, unless of course your a woman who becomes pregnant. than the whole area of assumption of sin is forgotten.
And some more crazy applications of laws on a local level.
Here in Saudi a Saudi man can hold his family hostage (true story) inside his home, everyone knows it, the son has sat and told the police. He can abuse his wife and his children, even sexually, in this home as he holds them captive. The police can stand right outside the door saying "we can't enter unless he gives us permission"
BUT they can raid the home, w/out permission of a non Saudi who may be having a dinner guest of the opposite sex. now doesn't that just make great sense.
Malaysia unfortunately is taking a turn to the more extreme minded when it comes to the law. Because they think that being more extreme will combat social issues that they think is killing their society. How far all that will go I'll have to follow. But as of now ther is still a seperate legal sytem for Muslims and non Muslims unless a muslim is involved. Other areas such as buisness ownership ect are more standardized. But contract disputes between non muslims is taken to their own court. it can work it really depends on those establishing laws and socieities willingness to go with it.
Exactly my point. Our company has branches in Saudi, and people move from Saudi to Qatar and back all the time. What I hear from the people who come back from there is unbelievable. Of course I know it's hearsay, but sometimes we don't have to go to a place to know what it's like. When I hear that the girls are being kicked out of shops because the isles are too narrow, or when the guys are being arrested for wearing crosses, I thank my lucky star I am not in Saudi. Not only this country has no respect for human rights or individual freedom, it also shamelessly enforces those ridiculous laws you mentioned (and many others) on the people who are there to make this country a better place. Remove all the expats from Saudi and see what happens...
QC Some of what you hear you can take with a grain of salt other things are related to the area they went. Compare the stories of someone in say Riyadh vs here in my town. Arressted for a cross.. my goodness half of these expats wear crosses. I swear i could have broke my kneck doing a double take turn around to make sure I saw correctly. A HUGE gold cross proudly displayed by this american guy. I was new to the area and thought.. OH MY GOD did he really wear that?? It isn't abnormal to see it here.
Alot of the garbage happens in riyadh they are like the last frontier of total lunacy. i was just talking to a Saudi woman who lived there for five years and went insane. She said "I couldn't have a girls lunch, we had to borrow a friends driver to say this was our man who could supervise us out having lunch". I almost freaked.. HUH?? My goodness is there a way to get those giggly googgled eyed perfumed dreanched flirty girls kicked out of the family resteraunt. WHY are they always so loud??
Anyway what she spoke of was so foriegn to my life. BUT.. having said that I'm enraged that this garbage goes on here. I do think change is a comin' but slowly and it will have to be defined by Saudis themselves.
remove all expats.. please want to see a country come to a stand still :)
Yes, the people that came here from Saudi spent years in Riyadh. Glad it's not the same in other areas, including yours. The guy who was spitting fire at me in the comments here also comes from Riyadh, as you could well see. How interesting.
Welcome to my blog, and thanks for a lovely comment (which can't possibly offend anybody, I think). I agree with your reasoning, and I am sorry to hear about the way America is intolerant to its own people - and not only Muslim, but many others, too. I've never been to America, but I had thought it to be a free country... then of course I grew up. Still, I don't think America is likely to have Islamic courts in the nearest future, just as it is highly unlikely to have Christian courts, or any other religion based courts. So I don't see any sign of discrimination in this respect. The country has its legal system in place, and just as I wouldn't demand a separate court for all my troubles in the Middle East, I guess people in America wouldn't, either. As for the Muslim burial - this is indeed an issue, as I believe people should be buried the way they want, the way their beliefs dictate, and according to their customs. And of course "Take off your scarf, baby, etc etc" is a disgrace. I am with you 100%.
u might want to add egypt to places you dont want to live. i live in cairo and its over populated, filthy and everything from cars to electronics are over priced. be thankful you are in qatar.
Wow. This is a law in the UAE ? I had no idea growing up there that things were that bad. Holy Crap. That being said, are you sure that things are really that much better in Quatar ? Having never lived there, I was wondering if the laws are really that much more lenient there, since I thought the UAE was one of the most progressive countries.