Realistically idealistic daydreamer, seasoned procrastinator, atheist and monarchist with a secret agenda and a slight inclination towards voodoo practices.
I love this contest. I really do. I just like looking at beautiful women. I must be corrupt, perverted and indecent and I should be deeply ashamed of myself... oh wait I am not a Muslim, so maybe I shouldn't.
Apparently authorities in Indonesia weren't amused that their country was represented in the contest. Latifah Iskandar, a parliamentarian from the PAN party was one who let it be known that Indonesian girls should not engage in such activity:
I’m sad that there are still Indonesians like that, at this time wer’e concerned about the issue of pornography. It’s very inappropriate. The Majelis Ulama Indonesia, MUI, also complained, and went even further, saying that Indonesia should not participate in the contest at all.
The MUI rejects (Miss Universe) primarily because it emphasises beauty and the body. This can be seen in the appearance of the contestants. Secondly, the MUI rejects the clothes they wear.
The womens’ wing of the Islamic Defenders Front, the Mujahidah FPI, have reported Nadine Chandrawinata to the police for indecency. FPI lawyer Adnan Assegaf, who accompanied Mujahidah Secretary Noni Supriyanti Budiani, gave the following explanation:
We have reported Nadine Chandrawinata as she has harassed Indonesian women by appearing in vulgar poses at the Miss Universe 2006 contest on behalf of Indonesia.
Amidhan of the MUI in Jakarta advised that a new contest should be set up:
Why not have a contest that doesn’t emphasise beauty but instead ability, intelligence, and spirit as human beings who are moral and religiously observant?
Yes Amidhan, there already are such contests. They are called Quran recital competitions.
As for me, I prefer to look at beautiful bodies, thank you very much.
As long as their adult women (and not teeny tiney overdressed baby girls) do as you will! Hell, Miss Universe is the only reason some people are aware that there are more than ten nations in the world. :p
"I just like looking at beautiful women. I must be corrupt, perverted and indecent and I should be deeply ashamed of myself... oh wait I am not a Muslim, so maybe I shouldn't"
As I know, Muslim women don't feel deeply ashamed of themselves just because they "saw" a beauty contest. In fact they "might" feel uncomfortable as any woman who would like to be beautiful as these participants.
"Apparently authorities in Indonesia weren't amused that their country was represented in the contest."
That is because Indonesia is a Muslim country, where women are suppose to stick to hijab.
"Yes Amidhan, there already are such contests. They are called Quran recital competitions"
You think all contests that emphasise ability, intelligence, and spirit as Quran recital contests? I dont think so :)
"As for me, I prefer to look at beautiful bodies, thank you very much"
Did anyone forced you not to watch the beautiful bodies sweetie?
I don't watch them ...I don't have the channels ..I think? ...I saw a headline on some paper or other that said she was 'dizzy'..was she? I am now from Actifed...great stuff!!!
My memories of miss. universe and miss. world date back to when I was a kid and the whole family used to gather round with munchies to watch, judge, and of course cheer on the Arab contestants (Egypt and Lebanon).
...now, I can honestly say it has been so long that I barely remember how they work- and would probably have difficulty remembering one contestant from another, until the very end- where miss. India wins :)
I grew up with the Miss America pagent, even went to a modeling school of an ex Miss America. I don't have any interest in such pagents, any of them, for many reasons. One reason is because I find them demeaning for women but to each their own.
a few comments though "They are called Quran recital competitions"
actually such competitions (and yes I'm against them too) don't emphises anything but the ability to memorize.
Ahmed "In fact they "might" feel uncomfortable as any woman who would like to be beautiful as these participants. "
I hardly think beauty is a size two parading around being judged in an itsy bitsy bikini. Perhaps one might feel uncomfortable due to the physical expoure.. period. Not all want that type of beauty.
a question though..how is she "miss Indonesia" if she isn't backed by the government? and how German is she?
Now you have to marry her! Oh you're already married... oh no wait you can always convert, and then make an honest woman out of Miss Belly Button. And a dangerous woman out of Mrs. Jack :P :P
Ahmed,
Women everywhere get to see beautiful women, even in burqa-ed countries. So telling me that they might feel uncomfortable watching the contest is pointless. Or do you mean that they feel uncomfortable if their men get to watch these? Men can see beautiful women at a click of a button and a turn of a page, and through various satellite channels, and a display of beauty in every non-Muslim country they visit. So it's nothing to do with beauty contests. You are right, nobody forced me not to watch, but someone is trying to force someone else not to show! So obviously if they don't show, I won't watch :P
Mise,
Poor you, missing out on the finer things in life ;-)
Chica,
Haha yeah that would be me, I missed this year's contest entirely. I remember the one where Miss India wins - her name was Lara Dutta :D She was a doll.
Nzingha,
Nah I don't think these are demeaning for women. Nobody forces those women into the contests, right? I think beauty is a hard work. I agree with you on reciting though - Bible or Quran, or anything at all. One of my friends here asked me yesterday whether I would prefer my daughter (if I had one) to participate in a beauty contest or in a book recital contest - I said it doesn't matter to me much, whatever she wants to do is what she will do, but I wouldn't encourage brainless memorising just for the sake of memorising. The friend was horrified.
This girl is half German, and she had a financial backing of few organisations which have now dropped her case and denounced the whole thing. How appropriate.
I would say that anything that promotes women as some pretty sized two object is demeaning. The parading around, in skimpy suits for what? Even if one isn't forced into it doesn't mean it is a positive.
I wouldn't encourage my children in Qur'an competitions at all. And to give money to a winner is sickening to me.
what i'm trying to figure out is how she got the 'miss indonesia' title to begin with. Easier then being Miss Germany I'm sure. If she has indonesian backers would seem smart to drop her.. but don't they have playboy in Indonesia? now thats confusing.
"Now you have to marry her! Oh you're already married... oh no wait you can always convert, and then make an honest woman out of Miss Belly Button. And a dangerous woman out of Mrs. Jack :P :P"
I think Miss Universe & Miss World are just one big sham by the cosmetic Giants...The contestants are groomed & nurtured for months and are totally plastic...
I could say the same about a lot of things that some people do - it's demeaning, but probably not to them. And I think living in Saudi is demeaning to women, but it's just me. I'd rather parade in a skimpy suit than have to adhere to some people's regulations and be prohibited from doing it.
They give money to Quran recital winners? Wow I didn't know that :( Doesn't sound good to me at all. Like if the prisoners here memorise Quran they will have their sentences decreased or even let free. How's one related to the other???
Jack,
Probably both :p
Daydreamer,
I love the national costumes myself! I always laugh at younger nations such as USA and Australia when they don't go for native look. And even when they do!
Lost & Finally Found,
Now where have YOU been?? And what have you been smoking? :P
understandable, you are not muslim and you dont beleive in what muslims beleive in .. but why its wrong for a muslim country parlimant person to stand up for she beleives in?
I dont beleive in pagens too .. they are are just emphsising that women are not but an object .. how they look, dress and makeup is very important!
Nothing wrong at all in standing up for your beliefs. However, forcing others to adhere just because you believe - this is wrong. So it's one thing for someone to say they disagree or disaprove, it's quite another to prosecute others for not sharing the same points of view! The contest was not in Indonesia, therefore the girl didn't break any laws. The people who disagree with the pageants are not forced to participate or watch. But I think it's a step too far to prevent anyone from participating if they want to.
I find it funny when people say that pageants emphasise women as objects. How they look, dress and makeup is very important. OK now what is wrong with that?? Is saying that women athletes are objects? The way they run, jump, swim, for instance, is very important. It's a skill like any other. When saying that watching these amazingly beautiful women makes other women feel inadequate - how about watching any other accomplished women, singers, actresses, athletes, oh anything, really, that doesn't make other women feel inadequate?? I am sorry, but why is beauty so much discriminated against?
And as for makeup and clothes - I am sure you've been to a few Arabic weddings. Now how did that make you feel?? How is it different?? Especially having in mind that the money that is spent on those lavish weddings is probably not less (if not much more) than that what goes into pageants!
QC, The woman is representing Indonisia, a muslim country .. now if she was outside insonisia, and have another nationality .. she is free to present herself any way she want .. but the lady was talking about her representing Indonisia or that how I understod it.
I know arab weddings are no different than beaty pagons, and this is why I dont enjoy it as much and if somthing is done here, it doesnt make it right! Any way thats my point of view!
I am really happy you're sharing your point of view :^)
Indonesia may be a Muslim country, but only about 80% population of the country are Muslim. Forcing everyone to comply with the rules of the religion even outside the country sounds a lot like dictatorship to me.
Personally, I find beauty pageants boring in the extreme, but as long as there have been beauty competitions, there've been protesters and dissenters.
What I don't like, in general, is the righteous fervour with which some people denounce the behaviour of others because it doesn't happen to fit in with their view of what's acceptable. If you don't like something, by all means voice your opinion. But that's enough! Don't campaign to have the object of your ire, banned, burned, branded or banished.
We had book burnings in Ireland years ago; our (now famous) writers Wilde, Shaw and Joyce all went into exile to avoid the censure of the church and state. We had riots in and around the Abbey Theatre against one of our most famous plays, 'The Playboy of the Western World' because it was deemed to portray Irish manhood and womanhood in an unacceptable way. Now all of these writers are feted, and thankfully, the narrowmindedness and ignorance that inspired such excessive reactions are not much in evidence anymore.
That isn't to say we've become indifferent. To the contrary, wherever you find two Irish people, you'll also find a robust exchange of ideas and opposing viewpoints. But most of us also respect the right of others to be different, and to hold a minority opinion.
Admittedly, I haven't read an iota about the Ms. Indonesia saga apart from what's posted here, but apparently her participation in the contest has upset a range of different groups, and now they want her, what? -imprisoned? exiled? hanged at the crossroads?
Maybe next time, she might be advised to add a disclaimer to her title.
Very true. I can't understand why certain people have to force others to behave the way they want them to. And not only that, but PUNSIH if they refuse, rebel or do someting out of the ordinary.
This girl - she's facing fines and jail term of up to 6 years. Imagine...
'Disobedience, in the eyes of anyone who has read history, is man's original virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through disobedience and through rebellion.'
"I just like looking at beautiful women" Me too :-D
But really I find 1st such shows are enough silly 2nd girls there usually are not the best
Go out & you will find more pretty girls. Yes yes & yes.
But they have perfect bodies, ok, that`s true.
I remember, I was watching something like this "Miss Universe..." /don`t remember year/ & there was one girl from Egypt. Our Russian commentator was "VAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAU, look look, this girl is from a muslim country. I`m glad that she could do it".
I am here, I am here, just working a lot and no time to hang around online. And yeah I totally agree - this topic is endless, but it's fun nevertheless.
Flous,
Interesting argument! You are saying that emphasising beauty is demeaning to women. Well don't we girls ALL try to emphasise our beauty? You know, clothes, shoes, accessories, makeup and stuff? OK maybe not all but definitely most. Ever seen a group of Lebanese girls in the coffee shop? :P How then can you say that accentuating beauty makes woman a sexual object? I think it just makes a woman sexy, and how is it a bad thing? And if it is, does that mean that any beautiful woman is a sexual object?
As for me, I think that wearing an abaya and a full veil makes a woman a sexual object. She's just a female figure, nothing else is shown. No personality, no individuality that we all express by our appearance. A faceless, anonymous female, plain and simple.
Oh and I refuse to agree that girls who participate in beauty pageants are all airheads - I know one, and she is anything but :^)
Even our Aussie contestant got in a bit of trouble over having posed for topless photos. I think those type of contests can be a bit sexist, but I don't think that means that people should be banned from entering.
No, we are not going to talk about religion. It's only clothes. I say that abaya as a CLOTH is making an object out of a woman. I am not religious so I'll skip the religious part. OK, I can say that abaya is making a RELIGIOUS object out of a woman. On the other side, varied clothing without abaya shows the woman's style, taste, preferences, profession even, lifestyle and lots of other things.
:)
But that's just my point of view, and we all know I am weird.
As long as their adult women (and not teeny tiney overdressed baby girls) do as you will! Hell, Miss Universe is the only reason some people are aware that there are more than ten nations in the world. :p